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 Death Penalty Debate

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129joe
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PostSubject: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyWed Jul 23, 2008 10:15 am

Death Penalty Debate 350px-04CFREU-Article2-Crop

Death Penalty Debate



0. Quick Warnings
No one holds the absolute truth. There have been films, books, and speeches by the dozen. If there was an ultimate truth, then one could assume this debate wouldn't have reason to exist. Also, we ask you try to avoid constantly repeating yourself.

I. Introduction
The Death Penalty, also known as Capital Punishment, is when the state punishes a committed crime by death. It has long been used all over the world. Most European and Pacific countries have abolished it while other places such as most of Africa and some states in America still use the Death Penalty. General, it is reserved for severe crimes which may include Premeditated murder and Espionage
In a few places, the Death Penalty can also be given of judged guilty of sexual crimes or even religious crimes...

II.a. Some Pro-Death Penalty Views
For those who support the Capital Punishment, here are some of their views:
> It prevents recidivism
> It discourages crime
> That it is less expensive than life imprisonment This face is false but believed right by most supporters
> This it is a just punishment

II.b. Some Anti-Death Penalty Views
For those who think that Capital Punishment is wrong, here are some of their views:
> What if an innocent is executed?
> It isn't just to take human life
> It doesn't respect Human Rights
> That it's more expensive than life imprisonment This fact is true

III. Where You come in
What are your views about the Death Penalty? Crime against Human Rights or a Just Punishment? Do you think it can be applied in certain conditions? And what about the inevitable errors in the system - when innocents get caught up?

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Penalty
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ONECRUNCH
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyWed Jul 23, 2008 6:49 pm

My mind is made up on the necessity of it but on the following...

Caihlem wrote:
For those who think that Capital Punishment is wrong, here are some of their views:
> What if an innocent is executed?

We all make mistakes

> It isn't just to take human life

An Eye for an Eye

> It doesn't respect Human Rights

Nor did the person that viciously ended someones life
> That it's more expensive than life imprisonment This fact is true


Yep - 31K per year to house a prisioner. If admitted at 21 and lived to 81 he would cost the taxpayer 1.86 Million. I find it hard to believe a bolt of electricity costs that much. Sure there are legal expenses but not that much.
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyThu Jul 24, 2008 4:33 am

I dunno, when writing this up I was also not too convinced at first. But then again I live in France where Administrations are the worst you've ever seen, a real sink hole of time and money LOL

As for the Death Penalty, I got more or less the same views as you Smile
We all make mistakes, and in any case, you stay quite a while on death roll before being executed, gives time to avoid these mistakes
An Eye of an Eye, and a Tooth for a Tooth Death Penalty Debate Icon_rambo
Human Rights, I think that's one of the biggest jokes of the 21st Century. People accept it when it suits them, reject it when it doesn't. And besides, people who murder have lost their right to live in my book

Also, I'd agree with the fact that if people know they'll get very heavily sanctioned if caught, they might think twice before.

At the same time I'm saying this, recently in France we've had some ex-convicts get out of jail early (for good behavior, what a joke T_T ) and within the first month were already back in jail
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129joe
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyWed Jul 30, 2008 1:22 am

By becoming executioners are we not lowering ourselves to the levels of murderers?

(by the way I am unable to access the gun control debate as the work computers security has blocked access - so unfortunately I cannot partake in that debate!)
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyWed Jul 30, 2008 8:50 am

No, The person that is to be executed had a choice not to be executed. The person that was murdered in the first place did not have a choice.

Over and above it all, would a criminal be more likely to kill if there was no death penalty? There have been many that do it just to get back in prision where they feel safe.
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129joe
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyWed Jul 30, 2008 5:18 pm

Is the murder rate lower or higher or no difference in the US states that have the Death penalty than in the ones with no Death penalty?

Is the murder rate lower in Death penalty states than in non-DP countries?
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyWed Jul 30, 2008 11:10 pm

Good question. It would mostly depend on the state and it's population based on weighted averages. NJ just ousted the DP so perhaps they would be a good study to determine this.
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyThu Jul 31, 2008 3:13 am

Maybe it's because I'm young and brash or maybe because I've been single for over a year...
but I think that once you kill or do some terrible act, then you've lost your right to live - period.
If it dissuades people, then that's good
If it doesn't, well then they really merit to disappear...

It's a bit like the Anti-Smoking and Anti-Drinking (in excess) publicities we have here. It dissuades the people who think. Those who don't... well, we did warn them, if they insist on dieing we should just let them
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129joe
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptySun Aug 03, 2008 8:10 pm

But where do you draw the line on what terrible act deserves the DP, what if you killed someone unintentionally?

What if you did whatever you did under the influence of drugs, alcohol or mental illness or excessive stress or provocation - there are so many "What ifs"
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptySun Aug 03, 2008 9:15 pm

129joe wrote:
But where do you draw the line on what terrible act deserves the DP, what if you killed someone unintentionally?

What if you did whatever you did under the influence of drugs, alcohol or mental illness or excessive stress or provocation - there are so many "What ifs"

Unintentional murder is called manslaughter here in America. The DP is not an option here for that type of situation.

As with anything there are a ton of what-ifs. Drug and Alcohol related crimes usually lean to a life imprisionment verses a DP but every situation is different.
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129joe
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyMon Aug 04, 2008 11:45 pm

Yeah we have manslaughter here too - but won't all murderers claim it was manslaughter to avoid the death penalty.
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyTue Aug 05, 2008 8:45 pm

Manslaughter only really applies when the death of an individual was unintentional.

Example:

You shoot someone in the head = Intentional
You punch someone, they fall down hit their head and die from the head wound = Unintentional
Stab someone and they die = Intentional
So on and so on. The point is in order to get a Murder charge you would have to prove intent.

Anyone could claim Manslaughter but if intent is prooven then the Manslaughter defense goes out the door.
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyThu Aug 07, 2008 8:00 am

Hot off the press.

So the guy raped and killed a 14 and 16 year old girl. In order to understand his execution I guess one can only place themselves in the position of the girls' parents.

Peing a parent of a little girl I can only state that I would not have waited for the Justice system to figure this out.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/05/scotus.execution/index.html
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptySun Aug 10, 2008 10:29 am

For my views...
Drugs and stuff like that is illegal, so if you're an idiot and kill or rape in that state, then it's not an excuse but the headstone to the grave.

I don't even read the press anymore when they talk of what others have done to each other T_T
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Tim
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyWed Aug 13, 2008 8:25 am

I'm with exacuting murderest and rapers, i with you on the human rights with and the eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth finally a life for a life..
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptySat Aug 16, 2008 6:39 am

this is a very disputable topic. many people are for and many against the death penalty.
The biggest problem is drawing up a criteria for a crime. There are those dudes that make crime scales on the discovery channel, but it categorizes lunatics and in your face murderers as the same.

Honestly I think the death penalty should be implemented in every single country. And forget about drawing a line between bad and evil. Murderers, rapists pshychos ... there is no excuse ... young ,old ,gay ,straight ,teen , on drugs or not. Black,white, asian, kuklux clan, alcoholic or not. If you kill someone intentionally or by accident it doesn't really matter. You never truely sure whether something happened by accident or by hidden intention.

The death penalty wouldn't only scare potential murderers away but it would decrease the general crime rate. If people where aware of the consequences then they'd not be tempted into crime.

and eye for an eye... as mentioned above.

I think the idea of prison is idiotic... housing, food, toilet and more all state paid. I'll kill someone , and i live for free. So whocares if I'm confined? I can make friends, family can visit me, I can go outside... i can work out... I can read, any many other things... that is sick! poor people with no jobs ... hurt someone else just to get the benefits...
what a choice: cardboard box under the bridge or cosy confinement?

Jail just tempts people into crime, especially the poor , who don't bother going to a job agency and go to work. Job agencies (in poland at least) are full of jobs ... but polish people prefer to get the jobless funding that they can get from the government... they get a lousy sum of cash... but its enough for food and accomodation and alcohol for a whole month... what more could you ask?

Its all sick... If i had the power i'd make the criminals/potential criminals think twice before acting. No jails ... instead hard labour.
you killed someone? ... or deprived a women of her virginity or dignity?... good bye ... we don't need you on this earth.

humans were made to work together ... you don't cooperate, you are not needed... no feelings involved.
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyThu Sep 11, 2008 1:36 pm

I think one of the main reasons many people
are against the death penalty is because of
those cases that have hit the headlines where
somebody has been put to death - only for it
to be found 'too late' that they were in fact
'innocent' of the crime.

Not so long back - we had a few cases where
mothers had been found guilty of killing their
children and sentenced to prison terms. After
spending several years in prison - it was found
that they were wrongly imprisoned. Now if those
mothers had been sentenced to death - no amount
of compensation could have made up for this terrible
miscarriage of justice.

I do agree though that prison is not working. People
get out and often re-offend almost immediately and
often these crimes are rape and other sexual assault/
abuse related or murder.

I think one of the major issues with out justice systems
is one of handing down sentences intended to 'deter'
future crimes of the same nature, especially the more
violent crimes. There is no 'consistency' in sentencing.
Two people commit identical murders but one will get
a much lighter sentence than the other. How can this be ?

A big issue I have with sentencing is the - so called
'Life Sentence'. This actually only amounts to about
20 years I think - and less than that when you take
'Parole' into account.

If we don't have the death sentence - we do need
something in place that would be just as big a deterrent,
but which - unlike the death sentence - can be revoked
should the person be found to have been wrongly convicted.
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptySat Sep 20, 2008 5:50 am

It's true that it's amazing the number or murderers and rapists that get out sometimes after only one third of their time on excuses like "good parole"... Hallucinating O_O
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyMon Oct 06, 2008 8:37 pm

The death penalty should return to being done in public places rather than behind closed doors. If we are going to keep it around as a possible deterrent it should be done where possible future criminals can witness it.
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyTue Oct 07, 2008 4:45 pm

But how can you guarantee that people will watch the executions?
Or what if a kid ends up seeing it? >.<
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyTue Oct 07, 2008 5:15 pm

Caihlem wrote:
But how can you guarantee that people will watch the executions?
Or what if a kid ends up seeing it? >.<

Let the kids watch them. Maybe it stop some of them from joining gangs and shooting innocent people just for fun.
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129joe
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyTue Oct 07, 2008 11:56 pm

record4 wrote:
Caihlem wrote:
But how can you guarantee that people will watch the executions?
Or what if a kid ends up seeing it? >.<

Let the kids watch them. Maybe it stop some of them from joining gangs and shooting innocent people just for fun.

Sorry but I think that's a totally ridiculous statement & I despair of anyone who feels like that about "the kids"

My kids are 15 & 13, so are fairly mature, but I would be horrified if they were exposed to viewing a public execution.
I feel hopeful & optimistic for the majority of the youth of today & strongly believe that the majority should not be dragged down by the minority.

Hoping that this sort of barbaric exposure to our kids can prevent behaviour that they probably never would have got involved in anyway is severely misguided & obviously not the view of someone who has ever had the pleasure of bringing a child into the world & battling to guide them towards a productive adulthood.
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PostSubject: Re: Death Penalty Debate   Death Penalty Debate EmptyTue Oct 21, 2008 10:20 pm

record4 wrote:
Caihlem wrote:
But how can you guarantee that people will watch the executions?
Or what if a kid ends up seeing it? >.<

Let the kids watch them. Maybe it stop some of them from joining gangs and shooting innocent people just for fun.

ROFLMOL
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