America's Gun Control Debate

I'll post here first, because I'm pretty sure some pinky is going to want to know my views

First of all, I come from a European background, so it's a given my views will not agree with the general American's views
In my world, we're taught that guns are weapons, that weapons are designed to kill. Killing is not protecting in my book.

So for me, America's Gun Culture is scary in the sense that you're giving your average day Joe a weapon to kill someone. I personally don't see how it can be used to protect either :/

I had this conversation with my dad recently, he's South African, over there they also have a sort of Gun Culture. He used to have a gun too. But out of the conversation, I remember mostly him saying: "I haven't had a gun since I moved to Europe, and I haven't missed it"

Pardon my lack of knowledge here but do people not hunt in Europe / Africa with rifles?

Africa is different from Europe, so I can't tell
In Europe, yeah their are hunters, yeah they use rifles. But there's not too many of them, and they are highly hated by the population. They need permits for pretty much everything before they can hunt

What I mean is that in America, it's easier to get your hands on like a Glock (or Desert Eagle if your Texan ) for "protection" and "to protect your family". In Europe, if you don't need a gun for hunting and/or your job, it's hard to get one.

Caihlem wrote:

Africa is different from Europe, so I can't tell
In Europe, yeah their are hunters, yeah they use rifles. But there's not too many of them, and they are highly hated by the population. They need permits for pretty much everything before they can hunt

Hunters using guns in Africa, legally or otherwise, are few and far between, I agree; legal hunters are generally extremely wealthy(the permits that you speak of are priced so exhorbitantly that they are the only ones who can afford them) and well equipped, including guides. I would doubt very much that the guides and other locals supporting the hunter's expedition have much hate for them. Too much money. Poachers, on the other hand are the biggest pieces of worm-ridden filth I can think of west of the Red Sea. I wouldn't mind hunting them myself. American hunters that stay in America generally use what they kill. Not too many hunters that I know would be wasteful with their prize.

Caihlem wrote:

What I mean is that in America, it's easier to get your hands on like a Glock (or Desert Eagle if your Texan ) for "protection" and "to protect your family". In Europe, if you don't need a gun for hunting and/or your job, it's hard to get one.

On this note, you're walking with your girlfriend down a city street at night in a so-so neighborhood (don't even try to tell me there aren't slums in Europe) when a man, holding a bat, steps out of the shadows and says, "Give me your money!" and the unarmed couple gets robbed at the best and dead at worst. Now what if an armed couple was in the same situation? At worst, the couple dies. Not everyone trains with their weapon enough. That would be the dead couple. Trained shooters, though are going to make one dead bad guy. That's good for everyone. Someone wants her computer back. I'll finish later.

Yeah well see, that's the part I find hard to swallow. My cousin in South Africa, different build than me 2m10 (yeah I know ) and plays Rugby, also has a gun.
He's been mobbed a few times, with people pointing guns to his head. Maybe he isn't well trained, but the gun didn't help him there :/

Caihlem wrote:

Yeah well see, that's the part I find hard to swallow. My cousin in South Africa, different build than me 2m10 (yeah I know ) and plays Rugby, also has a gun.
He's been mobbed a few times, with people pointing guns to his head. Maybe he isn't well trained, but the gun didn't help him there :/

There are countless stories where having a gun has provided the innocent an opportunity to live and the news reports it quite often. That said you can flip the coin either way. Mostly what you see is thugs killing each other here and I am completely fine with that. Also - When you look at the number of people killed each year due to gun violence it is a very small fraction here in the US. I'd be willing to bet more people are killed in car accidents then gun violence.

Thing is you take them away and now the people will just kill each other using different types of weapons. Enacting some sort of Ban on them would never work and generate a problem that made prohabition look like a childs birthday party.

It's really not that bad but unfortunately mass media has a field day with gun violence. You do not hear about people getting stabbed or poisioned on the news. It's not news worthy but happend all the time. Not to far from me a lady was just found stabbed 43 times. You would have thought it to be news worthy but it never made it's way out side of our local paper.

JMO of course

I was going to stay away from this topic but..........................

As a former Untied States Armed Forces soldier, I believe with every ounce of my being that those who want guns shouold have them. Of course these scumbags who use them for crimes are excluded.

I was raised by a proud member of the United States Rifle Assoc. and was taught the proper reason for gun possession and how to use one properly.

At the present time I posess 4 hand guns 3 Shot guns and 3 hunting rifles. Those are the ones I can say I have.

While in the army and in Lybia I was involved in a gun fight were I was grazed by a bullett and lost 70% vision in my eye. So yes I payed my dues to protect the constitution of the United States and all the rights given to us by the Founding Fathers.

Good points Kilsek, all around I agree as well, I guess as americans we see things differently some what , having had guns , training, a long term familiarity with guns here in the US. As opposed to other countries without the Right to Bare Arms.
My dad being a cop, I was also trained young at the shooting range at 12 yrs old how to handle, shoot and care for guns. As a teenager , I wanted to become a gun smith and make pretty guns for women. ( Feminine weaponary = Hot! )
I don't think it is bad to have the kind of confidence american gun holders have to know that if necessary we all should know how to protect ourselves and take a life to defend our own, if we ever had to. Because I for one , am a fighter at heart and will never lay down my life to allow some one else to choose my fate for me.

I don't hunt, or kill animals for food, or to mount them on my walls for trophy showings, But strictly for protection do I own guns. And with the proper care and training I will always be prepared and confident enough in myself to know that if I have mere seconds to protect or save mine or a loved ones life, I will use that time wisely.

Oh trust me, maybe not in America, but in Europe (even more so in England), it's press worthy when someone gets stabbed. I've recently had my swiss knife taken away from me. Too dangerous they say

Kilsek, I hear your point - although that is alot of guns O_o
But I make a difference between someone with your background - someone who is educated about guns and what have you - and the average day Joe.
People who've done the military, or still do, and other armed forces like the cops know guns and the risks-dangers. That kind of teaching makes it that you're much more likely to be responsible with your guns.

Don't get me wrong though, I've also got no problem with the idea of having the bad-guys die or kill each other. My main problem is when little Timmy blows his head up with granddaddy's gun or when Joey gets mad with society and kills before suiciding.

to touch on a couple points brought up since my last post.

If a little kid gets ahold of a gun from daddy's locker or other persons, and unfortunately hurts/kills himself-the person belonging to the guns should face severe charges and have all permits revoked.

All my guns are locked in a metal locker with a combination locked (looks like a money safe)

The only gun I kept readily available is my glock. Just because I have a permit to carry it.

Please excuse if I'm getting annoying, but ho do you define readily available?

Caihlem wrote:

Please excuse if I'm getting annoying, but ho do you define readily available?

in a holster at my hip.

















It seems i always have in holstered at my hip when I am on the support forum, I wanna shot at the topics some times.

Don't blame you

Ok... see I'd kind of freak out if I saw someone just walking around with a Glock

Caihlem wrote:

Please excuse if I'm getting annoying, but ho do you define readily available?

How about next to your bed! Gotta love this story

http://www.click2houston.com/news/17232222/detail.html

ONECRUNCH wrote:

Caihlem wrote:

Please excuse if I'm getting annoying, but ho do you define readily available?

How about next to your bed! Gotta love this story

http://www.click2houston.com/news/17232222/detail.html

What a great story Onecrunch

Hell, I believe that every American citizen (adult) that has no criminal record should be allowed to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. A couple of states have done this. What happens? Violent crimes drop dramatically.

Ah really? That's good news indeed

But on the other hand, doesn't it make it easier to be tempted to use the gun in an unethical way (shot a unloyal lover or the corrupt boss who just fired you...)

No better place to mention my first Gun Purchase!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just got a Beretta 92FS. It's primarily used by the military but came highly recommended. Wifey and I are going for Training in a week.

Very Nice OneCrunch, How cool! You should take some pic's of you guys training and share with us.

Did you hear about that horrible accident recently that happened on the news at the recent Gun show in the US? ~ Soo tragic

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27399337/

I have been trained very young how to handle guns but when I hear of something like this happening.. Its so sad, you know that such accidents do really happen sometimes

I haven't been shooting in a while. I've always been around guns and was always taught to respect them. All of my friends and i would go out to the fields and shoot and hunt. Hopefully someday my daughter will be able to do the same with me. Unfourtunately, most of the fields where we used to shoot and hunt are now warehouses and office buildings. The only time I get to shoot now is if i go about an hour away to an indoor range, so it's not as easy to just pick up and go.

Talking about hunting, a few friends of mine (Franco-American) just came back from hunting.
The youngest son, 10 years, got his hunting license

Is there any age restriction on gun wearing and what kind of gun you can have?

In NJ
Youth Licenses
Properly licensed youth hunters (resident & non-resident) aged 10–13 may hunt only when accompanied by a properly licensed adult aged 21 or older. Youths, 15 years of age and under, are able to hunt and trap for free, provided they have passed a Hunter Education course. Youth Licenses are valid from time of issuance until end of the year the holder turns 16. More information is available on the Youth License page.

For large game the smallest shotgun you may use is a 20 ga., the largest is 10 ga., and buckshot or slugs must be used. No rifles for hunting deer in NJ. I like slugs myself. For small game you may use a .410.

mkerv wrote:

I haven't been shooting in a while. I've always been around guns and was always taught to respect them. All of my friends and i would go out to the fields and shoot and hunt. Hopefully someday my daughter will be able to do the same with me. Unfourtunately, most of the fields where we used to shoot and hunt are now warehouses and office buildings. The only time I get to shoot now is if i go about an hour away to an indoor range, so it's not as easy to just pick up and go.

Mkerv, I have not been back to NJ in some time. We used to play paintball on The Ray Patterson's farm on Half Acre Road at the barn over there. Is the barn still there? I know after the Blooms sold their land, everything started turning into the business district there. I'm not sure what is now there passed "Bloom Lane". Is it really that hard now to find a place to shoot there now?

What about Mike and Tommy P? Can you shoot with them?

Nessa wrote:

mkerv wrote:

I haven't been shooting in a while. I've always been around guns and was always taught to respect them. All of my friends and i would go out to the fields and shoot and hunt. Hopefully someday my daughter will be able to do the same with me. Unfourtunately, most of the fields where we used to shoot and hunt are now warehouses and office buildings. The only time I get to shoot now is if i go about an hour away to an indoor range, so it's not as easy to just pick up and go.

Mkerv, I have not been back to NJ in some time. We used to play paintball on The Ray Patterson's farm on Half Acre Road at the barn over there. Is the barn still there? I know after the Blooms sold their land, everything started turning into the business district there. I'm not sure what is now there passed "Bloom Lane". Is it really that hard now to find a place to shoot there now?

What about Mike and Tommy P? Can you shoot with them?

It's safe to say there is no shooting going on near Half Acre Rd. anymore. Nothing but warehouses as far as you can see.